On Thursday, March 12, 2015 the Pacifica Institute invited members of the community to come to the Pacifica Institute’s Talk Series. A panel discussion was held, titled “Muslim Voices Against Extremism.” More than 150 people attended the panel discussion and the following question and answer session. US Attorney Laura Duffy gave some opening remarks to open the panel discussion. There were four men on the panel: San Diego State University (SDSU) Professor Ahmet T. Kuru, Imam Taha Hassane from the Islamic Center of San Diego (ICSD), Jihad Turk who is the President of the Bayan Claremont Islamic Graduate School, and Sayed Mahdi Qazwini, a distinguished member of the Shia Community in Southern California.
US Attorney Laura Duffy opened the discusson by reaffirming the ties that bind us all together as we renew our commitment to countering extremism in the community. She stated that the U.S. Attorneys were deeply engaged in efforts against extremism. She stressed the importance of understanding the root causes of extremism. She talked about how she was spearheading comprehensive efforts to stop extremism by reaching out to communities, by educating ourselves and our communities about risk factors, and to facilitate services to young people at risk. She closed her remarks by emphasizing that the thing extremists fear most is the enduring commitments that we, in America, have to freedom, justice, and the rule of law.
The Panel discussion began afterwards, with each panelist given 10 minutes. Some panelists were very enthusiastic about the theme and went beyond their allotted time, but the audience did not seem to mind. Ahmet T. Kuru spent much of his time talking about extremism and its roots. He opened by stating that violence was less common among Muslim communities than many others, and cited the statistic that homicide rates in Muslim countries is 2.5 per 100,000 per year, while the world average is 7.5 per 100,000 per year. He highlighted that extremism is not just a Muslim problem. He stated that, in the twentieth century, political violence has been mostly perpetrated by Europeans in the first and second World Wars, and that Marxist Leninist’s were terrorists during much of that time.
Ahmet T. Kuru asked the question: why has Muslim extremism come out so much in the last fifteen years? He stated that it is not the essence, texture or basis of Islam to support violence. He quoted the Quran, verse 5:32, stating that if someone killed a person then it would be as if they killed all of humanity, and if someone saved a person then it would be like saving all of humanity. The crowd reacted warmly to that statement. He then stated that Muslim terrorists mostly kill other Muslims and then quoted the Quran, verse 4:93, saying that anyone who kills a believer will receive living in hell forever. He said God would be angry with that person, and that God would curse him and prepare dreadful torture for him. Any religion, he stated, can be interpreted in a peaceful way or in a radical way.
Professor Kuru then spent time talking about the history of extremism. He stated that Britain, in the Middle East, was actively opposed to Caliphates. He stated that Britain supported the defeat of the Ottomans, and also supported Salafists and Wahabists. He finished this thought by telling the audience that if we think that western countries only support moderate Islam, that we are wrong. Ahmet T. Kuru spent time talking about what he described as the vicious circle. He said that violence is multi-causal, including political, economic, psychological and other factors. He stated that violence is a cause-and-effect within this vicious circle. He used the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) as an example. He stated that in 2003, after the American invasion of Iraq, the army and state were abolished. He said that the recent civil war in Syria had also led to the collapse of that state. He stated that you need a strong state to stop violence, because without a strong state there is no identity. He talked about Sunni people becoming marginalized in both socieities, and because of that ISIS has become a strong Sunni force. He stated that the collapse of Iraq is the primary reason for the rise of ISIS.
Professor Kuru concluded his talk by asking what the lesson for the future is. Islam is a peaceful religion, he said, but there should be more preaching about moderate Islam rather than on Salafist. He stated that western countries should contribute to solutions to political and socioeconomic problems to break the vicious circle. In the cases of Syria and Iraq, killing members of ISIS won’t solve the problem. He continued, stating that we need equal opportunity for Sunnis in both nations, along with political help, in order to solve the problem of ISIS.
Imam Taha Hassane spoke confidently, his charisma palpable, on the panel. He opened his discussion stating that Islam, which is the faith that he practices and is proud of, rejects extremism in all forms and shapes. He said that when we look through the Quran and Hadith we will find that they promote moderation in all aspects of the religion and in one’s own life. He continued, saying that there is a big difference between someone who goes through the literal translation, without in-depth understanding, and someone who has the tools and the means to understand the spirit of God’s divine message through the Prophet Muhammad. The Imam then began discussing extremism, saying that extremism has no particular faith or culture. He said that even though sometimes extremism is flavored with a specific culture, that we all must try to have a comprehensive understanding of it. He continued, saying that if we look at extremism throughout the history of humanity we would realize that is has no religion, andthat it has no specific faith or culture. He stated that the only culture of extremism is hate, and that the only faith of extremism is ignorance and the spreading of evil.
Extremist views, the Imam said, are not the result of religiosity. He said that religiosity means to make a person more merciful to all God’s creations. He stated that what makes a person radicalized is when they go away from the true and authentic teachings of the Islamic faith. He stated, emphatically, that he has never seen someone radicalized inside of the Mosque. He then told us that the real influencer of young people is the internet, social media and other bad influences. He strongly believes, as an Imam connected to a large network of Imams around the country, that Imams are doing an excellent job teaching the true understanding of Islam. He said that their message will make people more decent and better citizens of our nation. The Imam closed his discussion by conveying that he has a hard time reconciling how some people believe Islam radicalizes. He said that he did not understand extremists because people will be admitted to Heaven under their own judgment. He told the audience how throughout human history there have been people messing with their own sacred texts. Extremists, he continued, must find justifications from their own scripture. He finished by stating that moderate Muslims reject extremism from day one. Jihad Turk, from the Bayan Claremont Islamic Graduate School, began his discussion with humor and some touching personal stories. He talked about his name first name, Jihad. He said that Jihad means to struggle to do the right thing, and that it is the struggle to be a good person. One story he shared was that when he was younger he would sometimes go by “J.” His father told him that his name was not “J,” but that it was Jihad, and that he should be proud of his name.
Jihad Turk shared with us his experiences of being invited to the White House to discuss extremism. He said that three things struck him about those meetings. The first thing was that the approach was broad speaking. He admitted that now there are more Muslims communities under scrutiny than other communities, but that the meetings approach was to counter all forms of violent extremism. Secondly, he was struck by the administration stressing that there is no common profile among extremists. He stated that extremists come from different ethnicities, backgrounds and genders. He followed that statement by saying that there is one thing that extremists do have in common: they have all bought the narrative that America is at war with Islam. He praised the Obama administration’s strong stance against that narrative. Third, he stated that he was impressed that the Obama administration was focusing on the root causes of extremism, and not just violent rhetoric.
Jihad then focused on what makes young people join extremist gangs/groups. He said that one of the things that has been focused on, in the Muslim community, is looking at the risk areas that lead young people astray. He discussed the three things that contribute to the profile of an extremist. Firstly, he said, there is a cognitive opening. The cognitive opening can be because of a mental illness, a maladjusted home situation, or ill-adjustment because of identity issues. Secondly, he stated, is that they have a grievance. That grievance is that they identify America as being at war with Islam. The first and the second, he claimed, lead to the third, which is that somebody reaches out to recruit them. He said that, for the average person, what an extreme gang does is scary, but when someone is brought in to the inner circle, given power and support, that that can be empowering to a young mind. Jihad Turk then highlighted recent statements from an executive at Twitter. The executive said that ISIS sends out, on average, 90,000 tweets per day even with Twitter actively shutting down these accounts. He stressed that this was only Twitter and invited the audience to imagine the work of extremists on all other social networks. Many members of the audience seemed to grasp the magnitude of this line of discussion.
Jihad then discussed other ways ISIS tries to sway minds. He gave an example of a video where ISIS members, many of whom are carrying guns, are throwing candy to children. While they throw candy, the members of ISIS are encouraging the children to shout pro-ISIS slogans. He said that many video clips are very simple, but that the very act of being simple is what gives the videos a sense of authenticity that resonates with young people. Jihad closed his remarks saying, despite all the bad news, that he has come to have a degree of confidence in the Obama administration, the US Attorneys and other groups. He strongly stated that mosques are not recruiting grounds for extremists. The fertile grounds for extremism exists in the ignorant, he claimed. He stated that extremism is not really inspired by religion. He said that while religion is not the source of extremism, it could be part of the solution. Members of the audience were visibly supportive of this sentiment.Sayed Mahdi Qazwini, a representative of the Shia community in Southern California, began his discussion in a strong, emphatic fashion. All Muslims, he stated, should be unequivocal and consistent in denouncing extremism and terrorism. He said that whether the perpetrators of extremism, or the victims, are Muslim that we must be unequivocal and consistent. He then began discussing contemporary examples of extremist acts. He highlighted the Charlie Hebdo murders, saying that while the perpetrators of the act were Muslim, that there were Muslim and non-Muslim victims as well. He gave other examples, and concluded his point by saying that while there can be “so-called” Christian perpetrators and victims of extremism, there can also be “so-called” Muslim perpetrators and victims of extremism. Sayed Mahdi Qazwini came forward with a commonly asked question: why are Muslims not speaking out against extremism, terrorism, and denouncing the atrocities of ISIS? He said that there are some in Muslim communities who have the same concerns. He said that Muslims are, in fact, speaking out against these acts. He finished this thought by stating that we cannot be selective in what we want to hear, but that we must be open listeners. Sayed Mahdi Qazwini told the audience that if we want to reach a solution to extremism then we have to tackle the issue at its source. He stated that there were economic, social, political and sectarian grievances and concerns that must be addressed. He emphasized that many issues are legitimate, but that some issues are masked by piety and religiosity. He gave an example of legitimate issues by talking about Egypt in 2011. He stated that the main problems which led to revolution was unemployment, poverty, and that people could not get married or create families. He stated that other issues have been hijacked by groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS and tangled up in religious fervor. He said that post-2003 Sunnis had many legitimate concerns, but that these concerns were hijacked by extremist groups to for ISIS and Al Qaeda’s own purposes. Sayed Mahdi Qazwini then moved on to the topic of ignorance about Islam in the Middle East. He stated that much of the education people receive happens only once per week, at Friday prayer, for around twenty minutes. He said that the people are not taught what the Quran and Hadith truly teaches about peace and violence. He told the audience that anytime sheer ignorance exists, that it is easy for extremists to misquote and warp people’s minds. He then gave his opinion that he believes some governments, and especially dictators, want their people to be in a state of ignorance.
Sayed Mahdi Qazwini began closing his discussion by stating that, as Muslims, it is a responsibility to be progressive, forward-thinkers. He said that Muslims must be critical of their own tradition. He stated that sometimes we criticize the problematic elements in other faiths without removing the plank from our own eye. He finished his discussion by giving the example of Jordanian pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh, who was shot down, put in a cage and burned alive by ISIS. He told the audience that the average western non-Muslim or Muslim will not be able to tell what is true, genuine Islam is and what is not. When the panelists were done with their individual discussions, the audience was ready for a question and answer period. The panelists were gracious enough to, in most cases, answer questions and, in some cases, listen to impassioned statements. Many questions centered on the perceived problem of public relations and Islam. Jihad Turk took the time to share an experience he had. After an interview he was giving, the interviewer pulled him aside and asked him if he could say something more “sexy.” Much of the crowd collectively gasped and laughed nervously in response. Imam Taha Hassane stated that people, and the media, can be very selective in what they hear, but that Muslims need to improve in the area of public relations.
Another audience member gave an account of his life experiences, and finished by saying that if you have a young man with no hope, then he is open to anything. Sayed Mahdi Qazwini responded, giving the last comment of the event, stressing the importance that Muslims must create safe environments, and must have actions that follow their words. He said that the situation is a very difficult one to solve, but that we must confront what is causing extreme measures to take place. The crowd slowly filed out, many of whom stayed longer to discuss their thoughts with the panelists and each other in a less formal setting, as well as sample traditional foods, desserts, and teas. At the evening’s Pacifica Institute’s Talk Series, the voices of Muslims against extremism was collectively heard and received.